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    Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

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    Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

    Post by Lucid Memes on Sat May 16, 2009 8:40 am

    ::edit::
    more of Kealey's sources:
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    One of the main issues I've had with Kealey's work was the idea of androgynous origins of mankind because it just didn't really make any sense biologically. The idea being that the human species 150,000 years ago came from hermaphroditic self replicating female "clan mothers"...and to make a long story short, the hijackers of creation (genetic engineers) split the human species into male and female.

    I briefly heard or read Kealey mention the book "The Seven Daughters of Eve" by Bryan Sykes as an explanation for androgynous origins.

    I decided to look into it more and was surprised by what I found

    The Seven Daughters of Eve: The Science That Reveals Our Genetic Ancestry


    The Seven Daughters of Eve is a book by Bryan Sykes that presents the theory of Human mitochondrial genetics to a general audience. Sykes explains the principles of genetics and human evolution, the particularities of mitochondrial genetics, and analyses of ancient DNA to genetically link modern humans to prehistoric
    ancestors.

    The title of the book comes from one of the principal achievements of mitochondrial genetics, which is the classification of all modern Europeans into seven groups, the mitochondrial haplogroups. Each haplogroup is defined by set of characteristic mutations on the mitochondrial genome, and can be traced along a person's maternal line to a
    specific prehistoric woman. Sykes refers to these women as "clan mothers", though these women did not all live concurrently. Indeed some "clan mothers" are descended from others (although not maternally). All these women in turn shared a common maternal ancestor, the Mitochondrial Eve.

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    I have the feeling this book was influential to Kealey...he even uses the term "clan mothers" quite often.

    But the Mitochondrial Eve existing tens of thousands of years before Y-Chromosome Adam does not prove that females were self producing hermaphrodites.

    The concept of the Mitochondrial Eve is what happens when you trace the female part of humanities DNA to the most recent common female ancestor. But that doesn't mean there weren't any males around at the time...we're just not related to those males by direct descent...but when we trace humanities lineage to the most recent common male ancestor, it just happens to be tens of thousands of years later our common female ancestor.

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    This is how anthropology has always been taught. So I wondered how Kealey could've come to his conclusion that mDNA Eve was hermaphroditic. But when I looked more into the work of Bryan Sykes, I think I may have figured out Kealey's thought process

    Here's Sykes other book

    Adam's Curse: A Future without Men


    The first third of Adam's Curse is devoted to a clear and comprehensive lesson about genetics, the second narrates several fascinating stories of tracing ancestry via the Y chromosome, and the last chapters explore the history of male humanity and its future. Some readers will eagerly skim until they reach Chapter 21, where Sykes gets to the heart of the matter--why and how the Y chromosome has created a world where men overwhelmingly own the wealth and power, commit the crimes, and fight the wars. He uses the structural puniness of the Y chromosome to demonstrate that men are as unnecessary biologically as they are dominant socially.

    Sykes's argument for a genetic role in homosexuality will undoubtedly be controversial. Using Dean Hamer's pedigrees, he claims that evidence points less to a "gay gene" than to mitochondrial DNA playing the leading role in a Machiavellian plot to further its own reproduction. Sykes concludes by noting that, as evidenced by declining sperm counts and high percentages of abnormal sperm, among other variables, the Y chromosome is a genetic mess and is deteriorating so quickly that men could become extinct.

    Oxford University human genetics professor Bryan Sykes expounding his hypothesis that with the declining sperm count in men and the continual atrophy of the Y chromosome, within 5,000 generations (approximately 125,000 years) the male of the human species will become extinct. Sykes believes one of the options for the survival of humanity is unisex reproduction by females: female eggs fertilised by the nuclear X chromosomes of another female and implanted using in vitro fertilisation methods. He also introduces the possibility of moving the SRY and associated genes responsible for maleness and male fertility to another chromosome, which he refers to as "the Adonis chromosome", engendering fertile males with an XX karyotype.

    Sykes calculates that men are already half way to extinction and that the only hope for our species is the discovery among women of some mechanism to bypass the Y-chromosome altogether.

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    These books right here seem to hold the theory of the androgynous agenda that Alan Watt was talking about IMO. Ideas Watt derived from Kealey interpretation of all this...(or misinterpretation of mDNA Eve as meaning females where self replicating hermaphrodites before Y Adam)

    I think the logic of Watt/Kealey's idea of the androgynous agenda occurs when you see Sykes future projections for humanity...i.e. "if females have to fertilize their own eggs in a future world without men (Adam)...then that's what females must have been doing in the past, before Y chromosome Adam ever existed" ...so the concept of androgynous origins and an androgynous ending may have come from this confusion

    But even though I'm not sold on the hermaphroditic origins of the human species, I could see how one could interpret the ancient religious/philosophical ideas of androgynous harmony (yin/yang) as being part of a massive agenda...but I'm not exactly sure if this is an actual planned agenda or an oversimplification of seemingly related topics. But regardless, I do think it's apparent that their is an emasculation of the western male. But the answer to the question should be determined by the most likely cause


    Last edited by Lucid Memes on Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:54 am; edited 2 times in total


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    Re: Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

    Post by Lucid Memes on Sat May 16, 2009 9:03 pm

    Let me try to explain mDNA Eve is a more simple way

    Take for example, you and one of your cousins

    You and your cousin have 2 different mothers (or fathers, but stick to mothers for this example)

    But you and your cousin's most recent common female ancestor is your grandmother...

    And even though you both descend from your grandmother, there are still other males and females from her time that you're not directly descended from

    Cause after all, we're all cousins...and if all the people on the planet traced their grandmother's, grandmother's, grandmother further and further back, about 8,000 generations or so, it turns out that everybody's ancestral grandmother lived 170,000 years ago

    And just like how there were different males and females around the time of your grandmother, the same is with Eve


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    Re: Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

    Post by Extant on Sun May 17, 2009 6:15 am

    Interesting. I'll look into this guy when I get chance.

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    Re: Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

    Post by warrenBbull on Sun May 17, 2009 12:52 pm

    This thanx preston this is a lot easier to understand now....
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    Re: Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

    Post by Justinfinity on Sun May 17, 2009 10:06 pm

    I am familiar somewhat with mDNA Eve. I first came across her when I was researching the news that the Human Genome Project discovered that 97% of junk DNA is of extraterrestrial origin, that came out a couple years ago, which I'm sure most of you know about. I think she was the closest these 'genetic engineers' came to actually creating what they wanted with their experiments in a slave (even though there were probably other homosapien species during this time).

    This androgynous stuff is new to me. To be honest, at first look, it doesn't look very sound. According to this theory, I would figure that male was eventually evolved from this 'mother clan' and the females evolved with this, or do males also have a mDNA Adam at a later point to impregnate this 'mother clan', so the self reproducing 'mother clan' was eventually weaved out? If the latter is true, then the mDNA Eves would have been tampered with again to accept the mDNA Adam species, possibly. With those questions, I can also figure that the 'mother clan' was either devolving or evolving and needed a male counterpart that later caused the mDNA Adam to be created. Or, I can also figure that this 'mother clan' at some point started to be impregnated by the other homosapien species around at the same time somehow, instead of having needed a mDNA Adam to be created. Personally, I don't buy this theory.
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    Re: Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

    Post by Lucid Memes on Sun May 17, 2009 11:57 pm

    Justin, that junk DNA study probably isn't true. The source is highly questionable for many reasons

    And as far as your interpretation of the theory, my head spun in circles trying to comprehend what you said there lol. But ultimately, I don't buy the theory either for the most part


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    Re: Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

    Post by Lucid Memes on Mon May 18, 2009 12:24 am

    Preston wrote:But even though I'm not sold on the hermaphroditic origins of the human species, I could see how one could interpret the ancient religious/philosophical ideas of androgynous harmony (yin/yang) as being part of a massive agenda...but I'm not exactly sure if this is an actual planned agenda or an oversimplification of seemingly related topics.

    I want to comment on what I said here

    I'm beginning more and more to express a theory I've had for some time now. The theory revolves around the blaming long term agendas on memes as opposed to influential individuals (even though they're ultimately connected). To get more to the point, I believe that people are controlled by the ideas they have, and it doesn't matter who's in charge so long as the people believe a certain thing, they'll proceed to act it out

    If billions of people over large periods of time, believe in the same story (a story with a past, present, and future) then people will incrementally act in accordance with their belief and simply act out the story even if they're not fully conscious of it...So if billions of people all over the world believe that an apocalypse is the end conclusion to their story, then they will bring about apocalypse to justify their belief system

    So, one of the things I notice when I look back into ancient religions is the belief system that duals between spirit and matter. The material world is seen as a form of corruption from the original spiritual purity where all things are united in perfect harmony...but matter is seen as a divisive illusion, an evil accident that corrupted perfect harmony...and one of the key aspects is the notion of sexual unity i.e. androgyny. A perfect being, beyond the material world has no need for material or biological things such as sex, so the prefect being would be comprised of both sexual polarities and androgynous.

    Now, this spirit vs matter theme has been with humanity throughout the history of human civilization. So despite who ever the rulers were (or key individuals) at any given point in time, the thing that many of rulers and religions may have had in common was this spirit vs matter meme. And if you look hard enough, you can interpret things such as asceticism and ritual acts to induce permanent abstinence throughout history, as part of a long term androgynous agenda. So ultimately, I don't think it has to do with a conspiracy as much as it has to do with a long lasting meme of spiritual perfection that's at the root of this.


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    Re: Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

    Post by Justinfinity on Mon May 18, 2009 12:55 am

    Preston wrote:Justin, that junk DNA study probably isn't true. The source is highly questionable for many reasons

    And as far as your interpretation of the theory, my head spun in circles trying to comprehend what you said there lol. But ultimately, I don't buy the theory either for the most part

    The Human Genome Project is a government program, and for them to say something like this (a government program at that, as they do spread tons of disinfo) is something to pay attention to. Even though this announcement wasn't even acknowledged or looked at by mainstream science... like so many other things are. You say its 'probably not true', but what does that mean? Please elaborate on this. If you have information about this, I would like to know.

    Then I must be misunderstanding. I'm not concerned about the people and individuals - that's just gossip and I couldn't care less - I'm concerned about the information here. So what is this Androgynous Agenda about then, if not the theory and information itself?
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    Re: Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

    Post by Justinfinity on Mon May 18, 2009 1:09 am

    Preston wrote:
    Preston wrote:But even though I'm not sold on the hermaphroditic origins of the human species, I could see how one could interpret the ancient religious/philosophical ideas of androgynous harmony (yin/yang) as being part of a massive agenda...but I'm not exactly sure if this is an actual planned agenda or an oversimplification of seemingly related topics.

    I want to comment on what I said here

    I'm beginning more and more to express a theory I've had for some time now. The theory revolves around the blaming long term agendas on memes as opposed to influential individuals (even though they're ultimately connected). To get more to the point, I believe that people are controlled by the ideas they have, and it doesn't matter who's in charge so long as the people believe a certain thing, they'll proceed to act it out

    If billions of people over large periods of time, believe in the same story (a story with a past, present, and future) then people will incrementally act in accordance with their belief and simply act out the story even if they're not fully conscious of it...So if billions of people all over the world believe that an apocalypse is the end conclusion to their story, then they will bring about apocalypse to justify their belief system

    So, one of the things I notice when I look back into ancient religions is the belief system that duals between spirit and matter. The material world is seen as a form of corruption from the original spiritual purity where all things are united in perfect harmony...but matter is seen as a divisive illusion, an evil accident that corrupted perfect harmony...and one of the key aspects is the notion of sexual unity i.e. androgyny. A perfect being, beyond the material world has no need for material or biological things such as sex, so the prefect being would be comprised of both sexual polarities and androgynous.

    Now, this spirit vs matter theme has been with humanity throughout the history of human civilization. So despite who ever the rulers were (or key individuals) at any given point in time, the thing that many of rulers and religions may have had in common was this spirit vs matter meme. And if you look hard enough, you can interpret things such as asceticism and ritual acts to induce permanent abstinence throughout history, as part of a long term androgynous agenda. So ultimately, I don't think it has to do with a conspiracy as much as it has to do with a long lasting meme of spiritual perfection that's at the root of this.

    Like the infamous Baphomet deity.

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    I can see what you're saying. But any informed individual would know consciousness and matter are essentially the same. TPTB themselves turn it into a delusional duality, or because perhaps they are delusional themselves. Its perspective, really. Sure, the universe in many ways with our limited perception seems to operate with polarities, but isn't it all part of a whole? There's a much larger picture here not being considered.

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    Re: Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

    Post by Lucid Memes on Mon May 18, 2009 2:53 am

    Justinfinity wrote:The Human Genome Project is a government program, and for them to say something like this (a government program at that, as they do spread tons of disinfo) is something to pay attention to. Even though this announcement wasn't even acknowledged or looked at by mainstream science... like so many other things are. You say its 'probably not true', but what does that mean? Please elaborate on this. If you have information about this, I would like to know.

    I suspect it's probably not true because I did a google search on extraterrestrial junk DNA and hadn't found any credible sources

    When something is a mystery, people automatically look up and into outer space for things that most likely have an earth based explanation

    But I do believe essentially everything on earth is originally from the stars...but it more of a developmental process as oppose to advanced alien tinkering

    Justinfinity wrote:Then I must be misunderstanding. I'm not concerned about the people and individuals - that's just gossip and I couldn't care less - I'm concerned about the information here. So what is this Androgynous Agenda about then, if not the theory and information itself?

    The androgynous agenda was a book by Alan Watt who postulated a theory he plagiarized by Glen Kealey

    I started this thread to give a more critical approach to this theory because I can't confirmed it

    I'm at a point in my research where I began to take all the ideas and theory I've accumulated for the past couple of years and try to prove them to a level of certainty that I'm personally comfortable with. If I have reason to believe it, I will


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    Re: Bryan Sykes - The Androgynous Agenda?

    Post by Lucid Memes on Mon May 18, 2009 2:58 am

    Justinfinity wrote:I can see what you're saying. But any informed individual would know consciousness and matter are essentially the same. TPTB themselves turn it into a delusional duality, or because perhaps they are delusional themselves. Its perspective, really. Sure, the universe in many ways with our limited perception seems to operate with polarities, but isn't it all part of a whole? There's a much larger picture here not being considered.

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    I'm in agreement with your statement that there's really not a duality between consciousness and matter

    And that Mark Twain video is interesting. I was viewing that recently lol

    It appears to be based on Cartesian skepticism

    "I will suppose... some malicious demon of the utmost power and cunning has employed all his energies in order to deceive me. I shall think that the sky, the air, the earth, colours, shapes, sounds and all external things are merely the delusions of dreams which he has devised to ensnare my judgement." René Descartes - Meditations on First Philosophy: First Meditation

    He's essentially saying that he cannot prove anything with absolute certainty...the only thing he can prove is the fact they he's thinking

    "I think, therefore I am"

    That's why the demon at the end of the video says, "you are nothing but a thought"


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